Dear Partners, friends ug mga Igsoon,
Last night before I slept I shared with you why the "Lordship of Christ" is the culmination of the Gospel and therefore a very Good News for all of us. Recognizing the Lordship of Christ does not only put God in His right place but also putting us in our right place, to the very purpose of why God created us. To give Him glory and worship Him as our King and Lord. There is no other way we can be His true worshipers but under His Lordship. In my illustration of the fish, this is the chance of a lifetime that we will experience the place where we really belong!
But many of us including myself, is like a fish that after God brought us to life prefer to stay in the wetland where we both like/dislike the life in the seashore but also afraid to launch into the deep blue ocean of His Lordship where we can experience God. When we donot plunge ourselves into the Lordship of Christ, we are like a fish trapped into a small pond in a wetland (Hunasan), we are alive but always fearful that anytime the pond will run dry. So we do anything we can to make the pond bigger and deeper but at the end of the day we realize that we are just a small fish that can only move not even a stone but only a grain of sand. Our growth is very limited, because we can only grow according to the resources in that small pond.
But, while in that small pond God has never forgotten us. He sends a regular hightides in order to replenish the water and bring in new food, BUT most of all, hightides are His INVITATION for us to go with Him into the deep. His invitation for us to be at home with Him, where God will be everything to us, He is incharge, His will is our guide, His joy is our joy and His heartbeat becomes our heartbeat.
Hightides happen when we are fully aware of Him and we feel that He is asking us to step by faith and trust Him that He will see us through. But sadly, when the current of God starts to carry us into the deep, we resist with all our might and when the low tide comes we find ourselves into the same little pond, hoping that someday another hightide will come again.
Mga Igsoon ko, living in the wetland (not plunging into the Lordship of Christ) is quite dangerous because anything that would create a splash in that small pond might bring you back to the dry land and we know what will happen to a fish in the dry land. Surely the Lord does not want us to stay there forever. He wants us to plunge early into His Lordship because His Lordship is non-negotiable, every body will recognize it either now or later. His words declare that every toungue will confess and every knees will bow declaring that He is LORD of all, but the bad news is not everyone who will declare Him Lord later will be with Him for eternity. The demons, the people who did not surrender to His Lordship in their life time will be in the different place where He is.
Now how about those who are in the wetland?... I am not to judge, nor wanting to create a contrversy, go to the Bible and ask God, be at peace with what God will reveal to you. But for me, the safest place for a fish is the ocean and not in the wetland. Same with man, the safest place for man is in Jesus, being the only savior and Lord of our lives. This simple Gospel, who is Jesus has far greater implication than the different forms and legalistic rituals and activities of Chritianity today.
If our Christian life does not start with confrontation of who Jesus is, and if it is not settled to us that Jesus is the only Savior and LORD of our lives, there is no Christian life to live with. We thrive only in Christian groups and environment because they are nice people, they are our former classmates and friends back in college, they are safe to be with, but deep inside us, we do not care who Jesus is. We never consider Him in any area of our lives not even in our decision much more in our actions. Oh yeah, we call upon Him to assist us, we call upon Him when we mess up our lives, we call upon Him to bail us out of the mess and trick Him with some promises that we will be good and go straight after He bail us out. We call upon Him when we do not have money becuase of our indiscreminate spending. We call upon Him when we get sick because of stress in putting all our efforts to secure our future. We call upon Him during examinations and forcing God to let us pass etc... Sure God loves to hear those prayers... but how He wish that He will be more than just an assistant to us. HE is the LORD!!! and that's what we need. We need Him as our Lord because that's the way He created us.
I'll stop here, and again as I am sharing this to you I am also preaching the Gospel, (Jesus) to my self.
RG.
Saturday, July 11, 2009
The climax of the Good News
|
Why Lordship of Christ a Good News for Us.?
| Dear mga Igsoon, Since we started sharing sa atong HIsgot Hisgot few months ago, thought of Jesus as the pure Gospel had never got out of my mind. I was so facinated with its simplicity at the same time its greatness. I want to continue sa atong hisgot hisgot about JESUS as the gospel, infact for me, if we talk about the pure Gospel it will be Jesus alone, other addition or subtraction or multiplication or division of this pure gospel would make it irrelevant or difficult to permeate in some culture like the place where we are now. So sharing the pure gospel is bringing Jesus in the attention of man and let that man be confronted with the person of Jesus. We who are bearers of the gospel then must have a clear understanding of who Jesus is. Little by little I am beginning to understand the simplicity of the Gospel as Jesus alone and nothing else. Yet this simple Gospel is so profound that when we are given the grace to know who Jesus is it would really make us see the seemingly elusive Christian life that we desire to have. The simplicity of Jesus as the Good News (Gospel) lies on His being the Messiah (The Only Savior) and the Son of God (The Lord of All). These two is really the Good News and we can not separate them and consider one (His being the Savior) as the Good News and the other (His being Lord) as something we would struggle with. The Lordship of Christ is part of the Good News in fact it is the culmination and the climax of the Good News. I want to share with you why the Lordship of Christ is the epitome of the Gospel. When God created man He created Him for His Glory. Man's design and make-up is to give glory to God. In other words Man's make-up is to live and recognize God as LORD. Apart from this purpose man will be disoriented and lost. Imagine a fish in the seashore, it will try to jump and jump with all its might gasping for oxygen and hoping that his last jump he end up in water, this is simply because fish are made to be in water. Mga Igsoon ko we are made to make God our LORD, that is why when Jesus is not LORD of our lives we like that fish in the seashore, struggling, gasping, just to live for few minutes. That's what exactly happen when Adam anf Eve sinned against God and tried to live without making God as their LORD. they tried to jump out of the water and started to struugle to live and died. And this is the life and death that we inhirited when we also jump out of the water and we too did not recognize God as Lord. We did not give glory to God the very purpose why He created us. Karon mga igsoon, ones in our life, He has given us the Good News that He want to resucitate us, bring us back to life, yet He also said that He is not just bringing us to life (Jesus as Savior) but He wants us swim back to where we belong!!! recognizing God (Jesus) as our Lord because ORIGINALLY that is what you are!!! Isn't it a GOOD NEWS!!! that at last we are home. The Lordship of Jesus is indeed the culmination of this Good News!!! because like the fish in the seashore,dead after minutes of struggle, was not only brought to life BUT now given a chance to swim back into the water where it truely belong!!!! Now we can Glorify God!!! if we live under the Lordship of Christ. That's what we are mga Igsoon ko WE ARE CREATED TO GLORIFY GOD and the only way to be back to that state is TO MAKE JESUS (GOD) OUR LORD... that is why Jesus as LORD is a Good News!!! But, many of us just wanted the idea of being resucitated back to life but still wanting to stay sa "HUNASAN" do not want to swim back into the water of the Lordship of Christ. As a result we continue to gasp for oxygen, continue to be jumping and struggling to live the life Jesus gave us. Usahay maka timing ug libaong nga naay gamay tubig, medyo malipay gamay But that is not what our life is, nga mabuhi sa libaong Mga Igsoon ko throw yourself out into the water of the Lordship of Christ.... and begin to experience, the beauty of the ocean bed with God. While sharing this mga Igsoon, I am also, again preaching the Gospel to myself.. the Gospel, of who is Jesus the only Savior and Lord.. |
Friday, March 13, 2009
The Navs should be bonded by a four-fold string
Mga Igsoon,
Murag natabunan na ni akong topic da. I hope that these questions will continue to linger as we Read our Bible. Bobot and Kuya Eseng please shoot you further explaination on your previous statements.
During our Nav Staff Retreat in Baguio we have the Session on Realignment led by Danny Narciso one of our NLT. This was intended to define and redefine the words that we used in the Navs. Example of these basic terms is the Gospel. What is the Gospel? In the Navs what we desire is just to share and to live out the pure Gospel, free from the bagages that was added by the people who have accepted it. Another term that we love to use in the Navs is Disciple, Discipleship, Disciple making. but What is a Disciple? who is making Disciple? By the way walay nahitabo ato nga session kay sa "Pure Gospel" pa lang ug "Disciple" naungot na... hehehehehe until now wala pay follow-up ato.
Usahay gahunahuna sab ko is it really important nga we have commom understanding of the terms we use? because it seems to me that it is not the one binding us together. Actually what is binding us is the name "NAVS". Because anyone who associate himself with the Navs it is almost always automatic that he belong, mentioning few names and showing TMS is enough that we feel that he is one of us, we do not care what he believe or what he understand about the Gospel, Salvation, Disciple and other word jargoons. For me this is amazing.. But I believe, that God in His mercy, has given the Navs a portion of His Kingdom where we can play our role. And that Role was given to our leaders and is stated in Mission/Vison statement of the Navs.
“We envision loving communities living out and proclaiming the Gospel of God's Kingdom, leading to the transformation of hearts and lives, families and nations, from one generation to another”
and here is some explanation of that vision.
There are Big and vague terms in this vision that we in the navs should at least understand. Like "living out and proclaiming the Gospel" "Small Biblical communities" "discipling" and others. If we believe that this is what the Lord want us to do as an organization then there is a need for us to understand what are these phrases and terms mean.
I think here In the Navs we should be bonded by a four-fold strings. First is by the Name "NAVS" where we experience our first Love, the comraderrie, frienship etc. second by the "Vision" given by God to the Navs, third by the "Kingdom" to which the Navs belong and by the "Glory of God" the reason why everything exist.
We in CebuNavs we are strongly bonded by the the name "NAVS" very few are bonded by the vision (probably for some this is your first time to read the vision). I think many are bonded by the Kingdom (We are doing things, which is not in the vision that God gave to the Navs but still very much part of His Kingdom), and I have no hint of who among us are just consumed by the "Glory of God". Others might ask how about love? would it not bind us above all these? Yes this is part of His Kingdom because this part of the Kingdom values.
The Navs could hardly find people from its contituencies who are consume by its vision. I think this is due to the lack of understanding of what this vision is all about. Kung naungot mi didto sa staff meeting, well kahinanglan siguro ug reinforcement. Its good to start here in the grassroot level so that we will all own this vision the that Lord has given us in the Navs... that is why I want to continue aning atong Hisgot hisgot. Anyway ako man ang moderator hehehehehe so wala moy mahimo kung mag sigi ko ug tabi diri hehehehehe. Aw naa diay.. i-delete ang mga gikan kang Amir ...
Hala Bay Venric ilibot na collection basket kay human na ang sermon. Dayon balik sa Bible ug patabang tang nanan sa atong Ginoo. (BTW Bay Venric nakit-an na nimo imong Bible?)
RG.
Murag natabunan na ni akong topic da. I hope that these questions will continue to linger as we Read our Bible. Bobot and Kuya Eseng please shoot you further explaination on your previous statements.
During our Nav Staff Retreat in Baguio we have the Session on Realignment led by Danny Narciso one of our NLT. This was intended to define and redefine the words that we used in the Navs. Example of these basic terms is the Gospel. What is the Gospel? In the Navs what we desire is just to share and to live out the pure Gospel, free from the bagages that was added by the people who have accepted it. Another term that we love to use in the Navs is Disciple, Discipleship, Disciple making. but What is a Disciple? who is making Disciple? By the way walay nahitabo ato nga session kay sa "Pure Gospel" pa lang ug "Disciple" naungot na... hehehehehe until now wala pay follow-up ato.
Usahay gahunahuna sab ko is it really important nga we have commom understanding of the terms we use? because it seems to me that it is not the one binding us together. Actually what is binding us is the name "NAVS". Because anyone who associate himself with the Navs it is almost always automatic that he belong, mentioning few names and showing TMS is enough that we feel that he is one of us, we do not care what he believe or what he understand about the Gospel, Salvation, Disciple and other word jargoons. For me this is amazing.. But I believe, that God in His mercy, has given the Navs a portion of His Kingdom where we can play our role. And that Role was given to our leaders and is stated in Mission/Vison statement of the Navs.
“We envision loving communities living out and proclaiming the Gospel of God's Kingdom, leading to the transformation of hearts and lives, families and nations, from one generation to another”
and here is some explanation of that vision.
We seek to bring the Scriptural teaching and principle into the daily conversations and experiences of people-- for that is a non-negotiable essential for maturing in faith and wisdom. What we envision is not merely formation of small bible study groups, but loving and vibrant biblical communities multiplying across the country, living out the truths learned in the Scripture and navigating life with Christ at the helm. Small biblical communities that met in homes marked the life of the first believers.
People need Christ-centered examples of individuals and families as well as develop skills in sharing, discipling, and practical service so they can be a positive influence to their families, friends, neighbors, co-workers, and to society as a wholeThere are Big and vague terms in this vision that we in the navs should at least understand. Like "living out and proclaiming the Gospel" "Small Biblical communities" "discipling" and others. If we believe that this is what the Lord want us to do as an organization then there is a need for us to understand what are these phrases and terms mean.
I think here In the Navs we should be bonded by a four-fold strings. First is by the Name "NAVS" where we experience our first Love, the comraderrie, frienship etc. second by the "Vision" given by God to the Navs, third by the "Kingdom" to which the Navs belong and by the "Glory of God" the reason why everything exist.
We in CebuNavs we are strongly bonded by the the name "NAVS" very few are bonded by the vision (probably for some this is your first time to read the vision). I think many are bonded by the Kingdom (We are doing things, which is not in the vision that God gave to the Navs but still very much part of His Kingdom), and I have no hint of who among us are just consumed by the "Glory of God". Others might ask how about love? would it not bind us above all these? Yes this is part of His Kingdom because this part of the Kingdom values.
The Navs could hardly find people from its contituencies who are consume by its vision. I think this is due to the lack of understanding of what this vision is all about. Kung naungot mi didto sa staff meeting, well kahinanglan siguro ug reinforcement. Its good to start here in the grassroot level so that we will all own this vision the that Lord has given us in the Navs... that is why I want to continue aning atong Hisgot hisgot. Anyway ako man ang moderator hehehehehe so wala moy mahimo kung mag sigi ko ug tabi diri hehehehehe. Aw naa diay.. i-delete ang mga gikan kang Amir ...
Hala Bay Venric ilibot na collection basket kay human na ang sermon. Dayon balik sa Bible ug patabang tang nanan sa atong Ginoo. (BTW Bay Venric nakit-an na nimo imong Bible?)
RG.
Seemingly different views that need clarification
Dear Mga Igsoon,
Di pa ni human ang atong hisgot-hisgot, we still have many things to talk about. And I hope this is helpful to all of us.
For this topic, I still want to summarize that was said so far and everyone is still encourage to ask question.
1. I think no one will argue that Salvation is a gift and completed by Jesus alone and given to us free.
2. That the Father is the one that draws a person so Christ. and Holy Spirit open the spiritual eyes of the person to see Jesus as the the only Savior and Lord, and convicts the person of sin.
3. Kuya Eseng has a unique view that Salvation is not just a gift but also a Mystery, that we will be surprise whom we will see and will not see in Heaven. Its all depends on the giver as Ruby agreed.
May tanong ako kuya, and the rest didto sa mga gisulti ni Bobot.. Kuya is it possible that we will meet a very sincere Muslim who believe in the God of Abraham and with all his heart submit himself to God in heaven? How about Eglesia ni Cristo, Seventhday Adventist, Jehova's witness and others.
Here is the seemingly different views that need clarification:
1. Bobot had carry it further: "Saying yes to the gospel(The work of Christ), is the work of the Holy Spirit when he circumcised the heart of man being shared with the gospel. Even the acknowledgment, of sin is a product of a circumcised heart"
Question:
a. If saying yes or accepting Jesus (the Gospel) is the work of the Holy Spirit alone, would this mean that man has no choice but to say yes if the Holy Spirit choose to let him say yes?
2, I find this contradicting: "How much more making Jesus as our Lord and savior? We can not do that. The moment we will do that, salvation becomes a result of work. Instead we need to surrender to him and allow Jesus to be the Lord of our lives." - Is surrendering and allowing Jesus to be the Lord of our lives different from making Jesus as Lord and savior?
Glo and I have been discussing this for the last few days: Here are some of our discussion,
If indeed it is true that everything is God's Work, including the making of the decision of man to accept Jesus, there are very good implications in the way we bring the gospel to others:
1. It will bring us to our knees because no amount of effort in our part will work because unless God will work and will let that person choose Jesus nothing will happen.
2. It will keep us humble and totally dependent on God.
3. Since He is the one who did it all then all glory belongs to Him.
On the other side we can not help but ask:
1. Where is the parnership that God desired from men? his command to to believe, to submit, to accept, to obey to love, the command to go, to be holy, would this mean that in all of this man has no responsibility? It may swing to the other extreme, that we will not do anything because anyway its all the work of God.
Hala dili lang si Bobot ang mag share ani, Everybody get back to your Bible and search hehehehehe.
RG
Di pa ni human ang atong hisgot-hisgot, we still have many things to talk about. And I hope this is helpful to all of us.
For this topic, I still want to summarize that was said so far and everyone is still encourage to ask question.
1. I think no one will argue that Salvation is a gift and completed by Jesus alone and given to us free.
2. That the Father is the one that draws a person so Christ. and Holy Spirit open the spiritual eyes of the person to see Jesus as the the only Savior and Lord, and convicts the person of sin.
3. Kuya Eseng has a unique view that Salvation is not just a gift but also a Mystery, that we will be surprise whom we will see and will not see in Heaven. Its all depends on the giver as Ruby agreed.
May tanong ako kuya, and the rest didto sa mga gisulti ni Bobot.. Kuya is it possible that we will meet a very sincere Muslim who believe in the God of Abraham and with all his heart submit himself to God in heaven? How about Eglesia ni Cristo, Seventhday Adventist, Jehova's witness and others.
Here is the seemingly different views that need clarification:
1. Bobot had carry it further: "Saying yes to the gospel(The work of Christ), is the work of the Holy Spirit when he circumcised the heart of man being shared with the gospel. Even the acknowledgment, of sin is a product of a circumcised heart"
Question:
a. If saying yes or accepting Jesus (the Gospel) is the work of the Holy Spirit alone, would this mean that man has no choice but to say yes if the Holy Spirit choose to let him say yes?
2, I find this contradicting: "How much more making Jesus as our Lord and savior? We can not do that. The moment we will do that, salvation becomes a result of work. Instead we need to surrender to him and allow Jesus to be the Lord of our lives." - Is surrendering and allowing Jesus to be the Lord of our lives different from making Jesus as Lord and savior?
Glo and I have been discussing this for the last few days: Here are some of our discussion,
If indeed it is true that everything is God's Work, including the making of the decision of man to accept Jesus, there are very good implications in the way we bring the gospel to others:
1. It will bring us to our knees because no amount of effort in our part will work because unless God will work and will let that person choose Jesus nothing will happen.
2. It will keep us humble and totally dependent on God.
3. Since He is the one who did it all then all glory belongs to Him.
On the other side we can not help but ask:
1. Where is the parnership that God desired from men? his command to to believe, to submit, to accept, to obey to love, the command to go, to be holy, would this mean that in all of this man has no responsibility? It may swing to the other extreme, that we will not do anything because anyway its all the work of God.
Hala dili lang si Bobot ang mag share ani, Everybody get back to your Bible and search hehehehehe.
RG
Salvation is a gift and a mystery
Dear all,
On the subject of Lordship...
We will all be amazed when we go to heaven. There will be those we think should not be there. Some men and women whose lives are inconsistent with the Gospel call. We will see there hyper Calvinisitics and hyper Arminian in heaven no longer arguing about the role of men (as in Lordship) and the role of God through Jesus' emptied cross and the HS convicting us of our sins (as in pure grace). One thing I am sure, salvation is a gift and a mystery.
Geoff Garton's BS material on Doctrinal Study of Salvation is really good. This is actually equivalent with one subject on Systematic Theology. We still have that in our bookstore.
Eseng Victolero
On the subject of Lordship...
We will all be amazed when we go to heaven. There will be those we think should not be there. Some men and women whose lives are inconsistent with the Gospel call. We will see there hyper Calvinisitics and hyper Arminian in heaven no longer arguing about the role of men (as in Lordship) and the role of God through Jesus' emptied cross and the HS convicting us of our sins (as in pure grace). One thing I am sure, salvation is a gift and a mystery.
Geoff Garton's BS material on Doctrinal Study of Salvation is really good. This is actually equivalent with one subject on Systematic Theology. We still have that in our bookstore.
Eseng Victolero
Thank you moderator for laying out these questions for reflection and thanks to those who share their thoughts on the topic of salvation and Lordship.
I happen to believe and agree with Kuya Eseng that salvation is both a mystery and a gift. The terms are on the Giver and not on us. The Giver makes the call and grant it to those He chooses to receive. Ours is just a matter of gratitude to His great love through Jesus Christ. Repentance and Lordship is a lifetime process and an act of worship.
ruby
Salvation is not the work of man
Dear Family,
Lordship as a pre requisite to Salvation is the concept or Theological views of the group called the Lordship Salvationist. This is not a new thing as it already created a lot of controversy in the past. In my other email Jay apologized that he only reads that quotes from Mr. Murrel, an author of the book from where he got the quotations. In the current decade this idea or theology is backed-up by John F. MacArthur, one of the great theological teacher in our times. Sometimes he swayed to extremes, but his views are always sounds strong.
In my last trip to the US, I have the chance to befriend a newly acquainted pastor. He graduated from the seminary of John F MacArthur in LA. I told him: " I find you delivering a very balanced sermon(Kuya Wency and I attended his church)...I know a lot of pastors who followed John's teaching, turns legalistic..." I added. To that, he said a big YES..."if you are not careful, you will become legalistic..."
To me, Salvation is not the work of man, but; it is the work of;
1. Someone who has the capability or capacity to save, and
2. Someone who has the willingness to save.
Even saying yes to the gospel is something we can not boast of. Everyman if given the chance to choose, he would not choose Jesus Christ. Man will always choose the world. Saying yes to the gospel(The work of Christ), is the work of the Holy Spirit when he circumcised the heart of man being shared with the gospel. Even the acknowledgment, of sin is a product of a circumcised heart. It is not a product of intellectual understanding alone.
How much more making Jesus as our Lord and savior? We can not do that. The moment we will do that, salvation becomes a result of work. Instead we need to surrender to him and allow Jesus to be the Lord of our lives. Definitely, we can not make him our Lord. Alligning our lives to his Lordship? Who and what kind of man can do that? Definitely, no one...instead we can ask and plead before Him to help us renew our lives. Renewing our lives is not just a matter of counting the gains and losses and make a new action plans in order to allign. It is rather a spiritual in nature because it is a partnership between God and man. With God who ia ready to help, and man who is willing to accomodate the help from God-His grace.
Salvation always revolves around Ephesians 2:8-9, and Titus 3:5:
For it is by grace you been saved, through faith--- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--- not by works, so that no one can boast
He saved us not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. he saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Salvation? nothing coming from us...it is a FREE gift. Imperfect lordship? The bible illustrated it through the tax collector who said, " I am a sinful man...", that confession glorifies God but no promise of not doing it again as he reports again the next day to his job, collecting taxes...Did he has a perfect lordship after that? we dont know...what I know is that a lot of us are wrestling with our weaknesses no matter how committed we are inthe presence of God. The issue here is not perfect or imperfect lordship, but what is our attitude towards our sin, which I myself also is struggling and needs a lot of strength and grace from God.
Bobot M.
Thanks to Ed T and Kuya Wency's enlightening views. Thanks also to R.G.'s initiative on this topic.
Lordship as a pre requisite to Salvation is the concept or Theological views of the group called the Lordship Salvationist. This is not a new thing as it already created a lot of controversy in the past. In my other email Jay apologized that he only reads that quotes from Mr. Murrel, an author of the book from where he got the quotations. In the current decade this idea or theology is backed-up by John F. MacArthur, one of the great theological teacher in our times. Sometimes he swayed to extremes, but his views are always sounds strong.
In my last trip to the US, I have the chance to befriend a newly acquainted pastor. He graduated from the seminary of John F MacArthur in LA. I told him: " I find you delivering a very balanced sermon(Kuya Wency and I attended his church)...I know a lot of pastors who followed John's teaching, turns legalistic..." I added. To that, he said a big YES..."if you are not careful, you will become legalistic..."
To me, Salvation is not the work of man, but; it is the work of;
1. Someone who has the capability or capacity to save, and
2. Someone who has the willingness to save.
Even saying yes to the gospel is something we can not boast of. Everyman if given the chance to choose, he would not choose Jesus Christ. Man will always choose the world. Saying yes to the gospel(The work of Christ), is the work of the Holy Spirit when he circumcised the heart of man being shared with the gospel. Even the acknowledgment, of sin is a product of a circumcised heart. It is not a product of intellectual understanding alone.
How much more making Jesus as our Lord and savior? We can not do that. The moment we will do that, salvation becomes a result of work. Instead we need to surrender to him and allow Jesus to be the Lord of our lives. Definitely, we can not make him our Lord. Alligning our lives to his Lordship? Who and what kind of man can do that? Definitely, no one...instead we can ask and plead before Him to help us renew our lives. Renewing our lives is not just a matter of counting the gains and losses and make a new action plans in order to allign. It is rather a spiritual in nature because it is a partnership between God and man. With God who ia ready to help, and man who is willing to accomodate the help from God-His grace.
Salvation always revolves around Ephesians 2:8-9, and Titus 3:5:
For it is by grace you been saved, through faith--- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--- not by works, so that no one can boast
He saved us not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. he saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Salvation? nothing coming from us...it is a FREE gift. Imperfect lordship? The bible illustrated it through the tax collector who said, " I am a sinful man...", that confession glorifies God but no promise of not doing it again as he reports again the next day to his job, collecting taxes...Did he has a perfect lordship after that? we dont know...what I know is that a lot of us are wrestling with our weaknesses no matter how committed we are inthe presence of God. The issue here is not perfect or imperfect lordship, but what is our attitude towards our sin, which I myself also is struggling and needs a lot of strength and grace from God.
Bobot M.
Thanks to Ed T and Kuya Wency's enlightening views. Thanks also to R.G.'s initiative on this topic.
Nav Vision
Dear mga Igsoon,
Ako na pud ni ipa ibabaw ang atong Hisgot Hisgot.
Here below, was sharing about how we are bonded in the Navs, that one of the weakness we have is we are not bonded by the vision God gave us in the Navs, but rather we are bonded by the name Navs, and the Kingdom and with the Glory of God. I do not know if the NLT would agree with this but that is my observation. Is there something wrong with this? I think nothing wrong, because its gives us diversification in the larger part of the Kingdom of God. Its the reason why we are invovlve in the different minstries. Edith and mely are with the children.. Cris Malecdem are with Mangyans, James and Joker are with Bible translation, Jonthan and thelma with the prostitutes, Roy and kuya Philip are with equipping Chrurch leaders and many others are in local churches both in protestants and Catholic. like vivian and Sis Tirsa. Its amazing How the Lord produced workers in His harvestfield in order to expand His Kingdom through the Navs. So, as we continue to trace our ancestry and legacy with the Navs it is good to look at what God wants Navs to do and i believe we can always integrate the nav vision to whatever we are doing and continue to influence our sphere of ministry with the Nav distinctives, this is if we believe that God has established the Navs with certain role to play in the Kingdom of God.
Quickly going back to the Nav vision, I think it can easily be integrated to whatever ministry we are in.
“We envision loving communities living out and proclaiming the Gospel of God's Kingdom, leading to the transformation of hearts and lives, families and nations, from one generation to another”
From this Vision I see Three Big Words which are the core of this vision.
1. Communities
2. Gospel
3. Trasformation
Of these three THE GOSPEL is right at the center. it is the reason for the existence of the communities (Where the communities has to live-out and proclaim) it it also the prime mover or the reason/cause of the transformation of heart, lives, families and nations.
What is the Gospel then? - I believe that if we have a clear understanding of what the Gospel is then there is a reason for the community to exist and we will appreciate the transformation of ones life.
When Pastors and theologian are asked what is the Gospel, 1Co 15:1-4 ( Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures), will come as the scriptural difinition. Yes this the Gospel and if you look at it closely the Gospel all point to JESUS. Jesus was the one who died for the the sin, Jesus was the one who was buried and Jesus is the one who rose again, therefore JESUS is the GOSPEL, the GOODNEWS that man could ever have.. So Knowing Jesus is knowing the Gospel, accepting Jesus is accepting the Gospel. So living out the Gospel is living out Jesus and proclaiming the Gospel is proclaiming Jesus. That is why for me it is important that we should not reduce Jesus of who He is. He is both Saviour and Lord. - Saviour because He was the one who died and paid the penalty of our sins, Lord because He is God. He was Lord even before he became a Savior, He is Lord Now and will be Lord forever.
When we accept Jesus we can not say that we didnot accept Him as Lord, because our act of surrender, our act of giving up our path of gaining salvation (good works and others...) and accepting the work of Christ in the cross are indications of accepting Him as Lord and Savior. so we have accepted Jesus as our LORD!!! and I want us to remember that. So as we go on our struggle with sin, with selfishness and tendencies to on our own ways its always good to recon and remind ourselves that we have made that decision already when God opened our eyes and see Jesus and accepted him into ourlives.
So I believe when God told us in the Navigators to live-out the Gospel it means we should live out JESUS, His teachings, His Lordship, His character His Person, or simply we imitate Christ. and when He told the Navigators to proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom, we simply proclaim Jesus, lead people to come face to face with Jesus, the same as the way we see Jesus, both the Savior and Lord.
Taas na. next time na pud.
RG
Ako na pud ni ipa ibabaw ang atong Hisgot Hisgot.
Here below, was sharing about how we are bonded in the Navs, that one of the weakness we have is we are not bonded by the vision God gave us in the Navs, but rather we are bonded by the name Navs, and the Kingdom and with the Glory of God. I do not know if the NLT would agree with this but that is my observation. Is there something wrong with this? I think nothing wrong, because its gives us diversification in the larger part of the Kingdom of God. Its the reason why we are invovlve in the different minstries. Edith and mely are with the children.. Cris Malecdem are with Mangyans, James and Joker are with Bible translation, Jonthan and thelma with the prostitutes, Roy and kuya Philip are with equipping Chrurch leaders and many others are in local churches both in protestants and Catholic. like vivian and Sis Tirsa. Its amazing How the Lord produced workers in His harvestfield in order to expand His Kingdom through the Navs. So, as we continue to trace our ancestry and legacy with the Navs it is good to look at what God wants Navs to do and i believe we can always integrate the nav vision to whatever we are doing and continue to influence our sphere of ministry with the Nav distinctives, this is if we believe that God has established the Navs with certain role to play in the Kingdom of God.
Quickly going back to the Nav vision, I think it can easily be integrated to whatever ministry we are in.
“We envision loving communities living out and proclaiming the Gospel of God's Kingdom, leading to the transformation of hearts and lives, families and nations, from one generation to another”
From this Vision I see Three Big Words which are the core of this vision.
1. Communities
2. Gospel
3. Trasformation
Of these three THE GOSPEL is right at the center. it is the reason for the existence of the communities (Where the communities has to live-out and proclaim) it it also the prime mover or the reason/cause of the transformation of heart, lives, families and nations.
What is the Gospel then? - I believe that if we have a clear understanding of what the Gospel is then there is a reason for the community to exist and we will appreciate the transformation of ones life.
When Pastors and theologian are asked what is the Gospel, 1Co 15:1-4 ( Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures), will come as the scriptural difinition. Yes this the Gospel and if you look at it closely the Gospel all point to JESUS. Jesus was the one who died for the the sin, Jesus was the one who was buried and Jesus is the one who rose again, therefore JESUS is the GOSPEL, the GOODNEWS that man could ever have.. So Knowing Jesus is knowing the Gospel, accepting Jesus is accepting the Gospel. So living out the Gospel is living out Jesus and proclaiming the Gospel is proclaiming Jesus. That is why for me it is important that we should not reduce Jesus of who He is. He is both Saviour and Lord. - Saviour because He was the one who died and paid the penalty of our sins, Lord because He is God. He was Lord even before he became a Savior, He is Lord Now and will be Lord forever.
When we accept Jesus we can not say that we didnot accept Him as Lord, because our act of surrender, our act of giving up our path of gaining salvation (good works and others...) and accepting the work of Christ in the cross are indications of accepting Him as Lord and Savior. so we have accepted Jesus as our LORD!!! and I want us to remember that. So as we go on our struggle with sin, with selfishness and tendencies to on our own ways its always good to recon and remind ourselves that we have made that decision already when God opened our eyes and see Jesus and accepted him into ourlives.
So I believe when God told us in the Navigators to live-out the Gospel it means we should live out JESUS, His teachings, His Lordship, His character His Person, or simply we imitate Christ. and when He told the Navigators to proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom, we simply proclaim Jesus, lead people to come face to face with Jesus, the same as the way we see Jesus, both the Savior and Lord.
Taas na. next time na pud.
RG
Salvation is a grace
Indeed I agree with Edd and Bobot. Salvation is a grace and paid for by the greatest price. Thus it begins with the repentance of our sinfulness, then denouncing our old self and then accepting the grace of salvation God has given through Jesus Christ.
The full realization of the extent of His love makes us so grateful to God such that in everything that we do - obedience and good works, we do as a response to His love. This is where Lordship begins as we allow Jesus to reign in our hearts and minds, our decisions and priorities, opur plans, hopes, and dreams.
Vivian R Molina
The full realization of the extent of His love makes us so grateful to God such that in everything that we do - obedience and good works, we do as a response to His love. This is where Lordship begins as we allow Jesus to reign in our hearts and minds, our decisions and priorities, opur plans, hopes, and dreams.
Vivian R Molina
About Repentance
Bay Bot ayaw iduot si jay, maayo ra ba na siya mulusot hehehehehehe. Tan-awa di wa ka kadakop hehehehe. Nahadlok na siya acutally dili sa imo kung dili kang Dr. Edd heheheeh kay unya makit-an siya. maayo ko kay wa kaila si Edd hehehehe.
Hala pangitaa ninyo si Mac Arthur ug si Steve aron tubagon mo hehehehe.
Mga Igsoon ko,
I think many of us in CebuNavs, have not fully understood the full extent the the Lordship of Christ when we meet Jesus, but have confessed Him as Lord when we set the general directions of our lives to obey Jesus. I remember when Juniboy shared to me about repentance that is it a 180 degree turn of setting our general direction. If we are going to the north following our own ways of living, and ways how to get save, then we turn 180 degress to Jesus and embrace His way of salvation and let him sit in throne of our lives. Naa pa gani to drawing drawing nga linkoranan, unya nagutana dayon Kinsa man galingkod karon diha? When we accept Jesus we said we let Him sit in throne. That I think is what the articles mean to me when its said that "the starting point of salvation is the acknowledgment of the Lordship of Christ" If they mean another thing that I will not also buy. (Bisan pa ibaligya na ug barato), because if we do not see Jesus as Lord then we need to know Him more. Now let me ask you a question. Who among us here in Cebu Navs, accepted Jesus, without any hint in his heart of obeying and pleasing Jesus as Lord?" Yes we fell, yes we sin and fell again and sin again, but can we not see the Lordship of Jesus in operation in these experiences? I believe that His Lordship together with His Love and Mercy, grace and forgiveness are all in operation when we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Learning to live a surrendered life. the life that we choose when we accept Jesus is one thing that we differ. So kung wala nay mutampo sa atong Hisgot hisgot, I want to move our discussion on Learning to live a surrendered life, the life that we choose to live.
RG.
Hala pangitaa ninyo si Mac Arthur ug si Steve aron tubagon mo hehehehe.
Mga Igsoon ko,
I think many of us in CebuNavs, have not fully understood the full extent the the Lordship of Christ when we meet Jesus, but have confessed Him as Lord when we set the general directions of our lives to obey Jesus. I remember when Juniboy shared to me about repentance that is it a 180 degree turn of setting our general direction. If we are going to the north following our own ways of living, and ways how to get save, then we turn 180 degress to Jesus and embrace His way of salvation and let him sit in throne of our lives. Naa pa gani to drawing drawing nga linkoranan, unya nagutana dayon Kinsa man galingkod karon diha? When we accept Jesus we said we let Him sit in throne. That I think is what the articles mean to me when its said that "the starting point of salvation is the acknowledgment of the Lordship of Christ" If they mean another thing that I will not also buy. (Bisan pa ibaligya na ug barato), because if we do not see Jesus as Lord then we need to know Him more. Now let me ask you a question. Who among us here in Cebu Navs, accepted Jesus, without any hint in his heart of obeying and pleasing Jesus as Lord?" Yes we fell, yes we sin and fell again and sin again, but can we not see the Lordship of Jesus in operation in these experiences? I believe that His Lordship together with His Love and Mercy, grace and forgiveness are all in operation when we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Learning to live a surrendered life. the life that we choose when we accept Jesus is one thing that we differ. So kung wala nay mutampo sa atong Hisgot hisgot, I want to move our discussion on Learning to live a surrendered life, the life that we choose to live.
RG.
Lordship Begins in the Heart
Kuya Bobot ug Mga Kaigsuonan,
Sorry, I cannot explain this("The starting point of salvation is the acknowledgment of Lordship of Christ." ). If you notice, I was quoting Steve Murrel just to add to the article(by John Mc Arthur) for discussion as started by R.G. Kuya Bobot, pala-absent ra ba ko sa B.S. namo sa CIT sa una mao nga tig-paminaw ra jud ko (you can ask Kuya Eseng n R.G) hehehe.
By the way, here's the continuation from Steve Murrel's idea on Lordship.
Lordship Demands Obedience
Anyone who claims Christ as their Lord is expected to do what he says. Intellectual faith and empty confession is not enough. If we say Christ is our Lord, our lifestyle should back our claim.
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" Luke 6:46
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 7:21
Lordship Begins in the Heart
Submitting to Christ as Lord is not about following a set of religious rules and traditions. Rather, Lordship is a matter of the heart. Lordship begins as an internal submission of the heart. If it is genuine, it will eventually manifest itself in outward obedience.
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. 1Peter 3:15
Lordship is a Continuous Walk
We begin our Christian life by acknowledging that Jesus is Lord. We must continue to walk under his Lordship for the rest of our lives. Lordship is not having a onetime experience with God, but developing a lifetime walk with God. The more we know him, the more we submit to him.
So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord continue to live in him. Colossians 2:6
Jay
Sorry, I cannot explain this("The starting point of salvation is the acknowledgment of Lordship of Christ." ). If you notice, I was quoting Steve Murrel just to add to the article(by John Mc Arthur) for discussion as started by R.G. Kuya Bobot, pala-absent ra ba ko sa B.S. namo sa CIT sa una mao nga tig-paminaw ra jud ko (you can ask Kuya Eseng n R.G) hehehe.
By the way, here's the continuation from Steve Murrel's idea on Lordship.
Lordship Demands Obedience
Anyone who claims Christ as their Lord is expected to do what he says. Intellectual faith and empty confession is not enough. If we say Christ is our Lord, our lifestyle should back our claim.
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" Luke 6:46
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 7:21
Lordship Begins in the Heart
Submitting to Christ as Lord is not about following a set of religious rules and traditions. Rather, Lordship is a matter of the heart. Lordship begins as an internal submission of the heart. If it is genuine, it will eventually manifest itself in outward obedience.
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. 1Peter 3:15
Lordship is a Continuous Walk
We begin our Christian life by acknowledging that Jesus is Lord. We must continue to walk under his Lordship for the rest of our lives. Lordship is not having a onetime experience with God, but developing a lifetime walk with God. The more we know him, the more we submit to him.
So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord continue to live in him. Colossians 2:6
Jay
What is the the starting point of Salvation?
like it Edd- ( why double d anyway ?)
bay R.G., I must buy this kind of strategy , morag formal ra bitaw kaayo to inyo presentation sa question with "kuya"bobot he he and with jay - kinahanglan man ta ato magbarong Kong mag-answer... ug sakto si Edd, ang mga 'not so young' (mosanay ning terminology ni Cres da) or 'not so old' generation ,( pareho ra man siguro nang duha bay R.G. kay hairline ra man ang boundary nila ), gasigi pa ug papormahay, kay lalim bay - di god to tig- email atong panahuna nga mga gwapo pa to sila, he he .. . (apil ta ani nila bay R.G.?)
take a look at this - Luke 13:1-5
and the Words in 3 and 5- I tell you , no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.( NIV ni nga version bay R.G - ako ni hinulaman sa ako silingan, wa pa man makit-i ako Bible god )..
It's an action - reaction virtue caused by man, if one has to be prized with the ever worth of salvation. But such an act by man alone, points not to where salvation starts but where salvation begins.Unless we repent or as Edd would put it, acknowledgment of oneselve's helplessness, and humble ourselves before God - Salvation as an effect cannot have its due course.
Another thing bay R.G., the single phrase of REPENTANCE is highly encompassing , just like the LOVE OF GOD. It carries the acts , of Acceptance of the LORDSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST , of Control with one's action , Romans 8:9, 1Peter 1:13 -16, of Leading and Nurturing , as in the parable of man taking care of the vineyard, of Loving one another, the whole chapter of 1John, and many more. more and more... All these acts should not be competing with each other, as one could never precedes the other, but they are all put into one bigger sphere, and becomes the ultimate requisite of SALVATION.
Last thing bay R.G. , if you would ask me about the starting point of Salvation, be it the LOVE OF GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST could be my wisest response.
bay Venric
P.S.
palihug bi, ikaw may moderator, ingna nya to si Allan nga ayaw lang nang "Venric in concert" ang ngan sa amo reunion, diay lain ay, ug mura ug familiar nato ni nga grupo, "Ruby and Company" in concert.- bay R.G., lisod ning mga "not so young" or( "not so old?) kung moandar, like Allan he he he, kung baga mga mountain ni sila- kita ani bukol ra, ug sapawon tang duha, duha ka bukol ra gyod na.(dili mountain sa ocean ha , he he}
bay R.G., I must buy this kind of strategy , morag formal ra bitaw kaayo to inyo presentation sa question with "kuya"bobot he he and with jay - kinahanglan man ta ato magbarong Kong mag-answer... ug sakto si Edd, ang mga 'not so young' (mosanay ning terminology ni Cres da) or 'not so old' generation ,( pareho ra man siguro nang duha bay R.G. kay hairline ra man ang boundary nila ), gasigi pa ug papormahay, kay lalim bay - di god to tig- email atong panahuna nga mga gwapo pa to sila, he he .. . (apil ta ani nila bay R.G.?)
take a look at this - Luke 13:1-5
and the Words in 3 and 5- I tell you , no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.( NIV ni nga version bay R.G - ako ni hinulaman sa ako silingan, wa pa man makit-i ako Bible god )..
It's an action - reaction virtue caused by man, if one has to be prized with the ever worth of salvation. But such an act by man alone, points not to where salvation starts but where salvation begins.Unless we repent or as Edd would put it, acknowledgment of oneselve's helplessness, and humble ourselves before God - Salvation as an effect cannot have its due course.
Another thing bay R.G., the single phrase of REPENTANCE is highly encompassing , just like the LOVE OF GOD. It carries the acts , of Acceptance of the LORDSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST , of Control with one's action , Romans 8:9, 1Peter 1:13 -16, of Leading and Nurturing , as in the parable of man taking care of the vineyard, of Loving one another, the whole chapter of 1John, and many more. more and more... All these acts should not be competing with each other, as one could never precedes the other, but they are all put into one bigger sphere, and becomes the ultimate requisite of SALVATION.
Last thing bay R.G. , if you would ask me about the starting point of Salvation, be it the LOVE OF GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST could be my wisest response.
bay Venric
P.S.
palihug bi, ikaw may moderator, ingna nya to si Allan nga ayaw lang nang "Venric in concert" ang ngan sa amo reunion, diay lain ay, ug mura ug familiar nato ni nga grupo, "Ruby and Company" in concert.- bay R.G., lisod ning mga "not so young" or( "not so old?) kung moandar, like Allan he he he, kung baga mga mountain ni sila- kita ani bukol ra, ug sapawon tang duha, duha ka bukol ra gyod na.(dili mountain sa ocean ha , he he}
I don't buy the idea
Bay, RG, and Jay (I still need to meet you),
I suggest that we huddle into a small corner so we can talk a little bit about
this while everyone is still greeting each other and telling stories of their
adventure or misadventure in life with God. Sometime I view this as a huge
fellowship where everyone just wanted to talk and there a few of us enjoyed
watching and smiling that at the end of the time, our jaws started to lock up and
become sore.
By the way, I don't buy the idea that "The starting point of salvation is
the acknowledgment of Lordship of Christ".
I would rather say that the starting point of salvation is the acknowledgment
of oneselve's helplessness that no matter what he/she does he still fall short
of the glory of God. Unless there is that acknowledgement, how else would
he come to Christ?
Ssssshhh. Let's keep our voices low. Maybe the "not so young" generations
as Cres would put it who are just smiling or busy deleting messages might
want to chip in.
Warm regards,
Edd
I suggest that we huddle into a small corner so we can talk a little bit about
this while everyone is still greeting each other and telling stories of their
adventure or misadventure in life with God. Sometime I view this as a huge
fellowship where everyone just wanted to talk and there a few of us enjoyed
watching and smiling that at the end of the time, our jaws started to lock up and
become sore.
By the way, I don't buy the idea that "The starting point of salvation is
the acknowledgment of Lordship of Christ".
I would rather say that the starting point of salvation is the acknowledgment
of oneselve's helplessness that no matter what he/she does he still fall short
of the glory of God. Unless there is that acknowledgement, how else would
he come to Christ?
Ssssshhh. Let's keep our voices low. Maybe the "not so young" generations
as Cres would put it who are just smiling or busy deleting messages might
want to chip in.
Warm regards,
Edd
The Sum Total of the Ledger
Mga igsoon,
Mga tig tampo ning atong hisgot hisgot, palihog ug sumpay sa latest nga post and do not erase ang previous posts kay ganahan ko nga at any point sa atong discussion anybody can follow thw previous thoughs we had. Kapoy baya ug cut and paste sa inyoung tampo.
Haay, salamat wala kaila sa ko si Edd. Kuya wency siguro pag tagal tagal bisaya ka na rin.
Salamat kaayo sa inyong mga tampo, nag kanidot na ni atong balay nga Cebu Navs, naa busy sa re-union, naa sa kilid nalingaw sa ilang kinumustahay, naa gakalipay sa mga answered payered, naa nagahilak, naa gusto mag bake ug mag pinirito, naa ay gangisingisi sa kilid, Naa pud nagapangutana sa ila kugalingon "Hala no save ba kaha ko?" hehehehehe, Naay tigulang, not so young ang not so old hehehehe what a beatiful community to be with.
Balik ko sa atong hisgot-hisgot. I have no objection on the things that you said. The hopelessness that you said is the conclusion of the king who encountered the KING with great power, he saw himself as hopeless so he gave up, he subject himself to Jesus, and accept Jesus and what He said about Himself. Jesus did not sugar-coat the fact that He is the only Savior and Lord (Son of God)..
When people who wanted to define what a Messiah is (someone who can always perform a magic of multiplying food exponentially) left Him because He was trying to redefine what a real Messiah is, he turned to his disciples and asked "What about you? are you willing to leave also? He was happy when Peter recognized it that He is the Christ (Savior) and the Son of the living God (Lord).
From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” 68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”[John 6:66-69]
Peter was in the state of "hopelessness" "to whom shall we go?" then right infront of him, was Jesus, the who holds eternal life, the Christ (Savior) and the Son of God (Lord), then he surrendered...Those who left were members of "Jesus fans club" they liked Jesus because He can provide bread instantly. But when Jesus ceased to be what they like him to be they left.
What is amazing to me is the verse before that. Joh 6:65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
Wow!! the opportunity to come to Jesus face to face and recognize him of who is He is (as the Only Savior and Lord) that in itself is a gift from God. The twelve disciples were given that opportunity including Judas. Eleven of them made the right response of surrender, but one did not.
Mga igsoon ko diri sa Cebu Navs, I think all of us has given the grace of meeting Jesus face to face and able to know and recognize Him as the only Savior and Lord. And i pray that all of us has grabbed that opportunity, and be forever grateful for that. Being here in the midst of this M world my heart bleeds for the multitude of people who has not yet given the opportunity to come face to face with Jesus.
Mga igsoon ko I pray that we will not join or remain as members of "Jesus Fans Club" or Paul's fans club or Peter's fan club nor "Bay Venric's fans club" Let us all put Jesus in His proper place. Again like Kuya Wency said, no one will be perfect in obeying our KING, we stumble, we fall and we have weaknesses, and we thank God that in all of these they are all taken cared of by His Grace." But it must be clear that the Sum Total of the ledger (sakto ba ako term ani mga accountant?) is Jesus is Lord of our lives.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus (Jesus as the Lord in other translation) and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
This verse I believe does not say that confessing Jesus as Lord is will guarantee a 100% obedience in our part and in every area in our lives. But rather confessing is a declaration, a chosen direction of life, a life that is surrendered to Jesus. This we need to preach Jesus (the gospel) to ourselves daily and in every situation, especially when it comes to issues in life where the decision of whom to follow "Jesus or me" is invovlve, some of us can easily yield and dont even dare to fight, some may dare to fight and engage God in arguments, (like Job and the prophets) but a person who have confessed Jesus as lord, always have the white flag ready in his pocket, because he knows that he has no match for this King.
I had a good fight with this KING during by burned-out days for more than 8 months I do not want even to think about Him. I was so dissappointed with Him because dispite that I was "serving" Him full time, He did not give what I asked, so nangluod ko, I fought Him with a silent treatment (I know wives never like this kind of fight hehehe) looking back it was really a fight of who is lord between the two of us. And one day He pushed His Lordship a little harder, I heard His voice almost audibly saying " RG, you are running away from Me, but where are you going?" I knelt down, and slowly take out my white flag and said "Yes LORD, you are right, I have nowhere to go, because whereever I go you are there" It was not just His Lordship that reign but also His Love, mercy and Grace. Now I am awed "What Kind of LORD is He!!!, very gentle and loving full of mercy and grace" So Let us not be affraid to take Jesus as Lord, nor be affraid of sharing Jesus as Lord right at the start.
Haay taasa na diay sa akong nasulat.
RG
Mga tig tampo ning atong hisgot hisgot, palihog ug sumpay sa latest nga post and do not erase ang previous posts kay ganahan ko nga at any point sa atong discussion anybody can follow thw previous thoughs we had. Kapoy baya ug cut and paste sa inyoung tampo.
Haay, salamat wala kaila sa ko si Edd. Kuya wency siguro pag tagal tagal bisaya ka na rin.
Salamat kaayo sa inyong mga tampo, nag kanidot na ni atong balay nga Cebu Navs, naa busy sa re-union, naa sa kilid nalingaw sa ilang kinumustahay, naa gakalipay sa mga answered payered, naa nagahilak, naa gusto mag bake ug mag pinirito, naa ay gangisingisi sa kilid, Naa pud nagapangutana sa ila kugalingon "Hala no save ba kaha ko?" hehehehehe, Naay tigulang, not so young ang not so old hehehehe what a beatiful community to be with.
Balik ko sa atong hisgot-hisgot. I have no objection on the things that you said. The hopelessness that you said is the conclusion of the king who encountered the KING with great power, he saw himself as hopeless so he gave up, he subject himself to Jesus, and accept Jesus and what He said about Himself. Jesus did not sugar-coat the fact that He is the only Savior and Lord (Son of God)..
When people who wanted to define what a Messiah is (someone who can always perform a magic of multiplying food exponentially) left Him because He was trying to redefine what a real Messiah is, he turned to his disciples and asked "What about you? are you willing to leave also? He was happy when Peter recognized it that He is the Christ (Savior) and the Son of the living God (Lord).
From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” 68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”[John 6:66-69]
Peter was in the state of "hopelessness" "to whom shall we go?" then right infront of him, was Jesus, the who holds eternal life, the Christ (Savior) and the Son of God (Lord), then he surrendered...Those who left were members of "Jesus fans club" they liked Jesus because He can provide bread instantly. But when Jesus ceased to be what they like him to be they left.
What is amazing to me is the verse before that. Joh 6:65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
Wow!! the opportunity to come to Jesus face to face and recognize him of who is He is (as the Only Savior and Lord) that in itself is a gift from God. The twelve disciples were given that opportunity including Judas. Eleven of them made the right response of surrender, but one did not.
Mga igsoon ko diri sa Cebu Navs, I think all of us has given the grace of meeting Jesus face to face and able to know and recognize Him as the only Savior and Lord. And i pray that all of us has grabbed that opportunity, and be forever grateful for that. Being here in the midst of this M world my heart bleeds for the multitude of people who has not yet given the opportunity to come face to face with Jesus.
Mga igsoon ko I pray that we will not join or remain as members of "Jesus Fans Club" or Paul's fans club or Peter's fan club nor "Bay Venric's fans club" Let us all put Jesus in His proper place. Again like Kuya Wency said, no one will be perfect in obeying our KING, we stumble, we fall and we have weaknesses, and we thank God that in all of these they are all taken cared of by His Grace." But it must be clear that the Sum Total of the ledger (sakto ba ako term ani mga accountant?) is Jesus is Lord of our lives.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus (Jesus as the Lord in other translation) and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
This verse I believe does not say that confessing Jesus as Lord is will guarantee a 100% obedience in our part and in every area in our lives. But rather confessing is a declaration, a chosen direction of life, a life that is surrendered to Jesus. This we need to preach Jesus (the gospel) to ourselves daily and in every situation, especially when it comes to issues in life where the decision of whom to follow "Jesus or me" is invovlve, some of us can easily yield and dont even dare to fight, some may dare to fight and engage God in arguments, (like Job and the prophets) but a person who have confessed Jesus as lord, always have the white flag ready in his pocket, because he knows that he has no match for this King.
I had a good fight with this KING during by burned-out days for more than 8 months I do not want even to think about Him. I was so dissappointed with Him because dispite that I was "serving" Him full time, He did not give what I asked, so nangluod ko, I fought Him with a silent treatment (I know wives never like this kind of fight hehehe) looking back it was really a fight of who is lord between the two of us. And one day He pushed His Lordship a little harder, I heard His voice almost audibly saying " RG, you are running away from Me, but where are you going?" I knelt down, and slowly take out my white flag and said "Yes LORD, you are right, I have nowhere to go, because whereever I go you are there" It was not just His Lordship that reign but also His Love, mercy and Grace. Now I am awed "What Kind of LORD is He!!!, very gentle and loving full of mercy and grace" So Let us not be affraid to take Jesus as Lord, nor be affraid of sharing Jesus as Lord right at the start.
Haay taasa na diay sa akong nasulat.
RG
When was the time that the 12 become believers?
Dear Family,
When was the time that the 12 become believers? After three years with
Jesus, they were still a disappointment. Judas sold Jesus, Peter denied
Jesus three times, cut the ear of the servant. A few were jockeying up
for position in heaven and arguing about who is the greatest. . Others
were scattered and abandoned the King. Only the women stayed with Jesus!
Were they already believers at that time who surrendered their lives
100% to Jesus? What a picture of a disciple!
Truth is we are all fellow travelers...each with weaknesses that needs
to be surrendered to Jesus as we recognize them.....and that is the
process until we "graduate" to heaven...But we grow in that repenting
process only when we are involve with a gracious community that accepts
us unconditionally. We need to journey with one another especially in
our weakness.....
To be a disciple does not mean we will walk in obedience perfectly. We
are 100% forgiven and accepted unconditionally just because of
Jesus...absolutely nothing in us is acceptable to God apart from Jesus,
even our so called obedience and sacrifices.....that is our position
before God and it helps us be sober and humble before God and man.
We are saved by grace 100%, free for us but costly to Jesus. Even
maintaining our salvation is 100% by grace, not because of our obedience
are we accepted daily by God ....but only because of Jesus. If we deeply
appreciate the grace of salvation, we will be compelled to love and
obey Him in return as a sign of gratitude. Those believers who do not
seek to obey, do not yet experience and appreciate the depth of God's
love and grace. (Edd is right that we need to see our hopelessness first
before we can appreciate His grace. Problem is we see ourselves as good
and able people. We live independently from God--which is the worst form
of idolatry.)
We have to acknowledge Him as King of our lives, the one who owns us...
has the authority to manage and lead our lives...that implies that from
now on we will seek to obey Him with the help of the Holy Spirit out of
gratitude to His graciousness.
Wency
When was the time that the 12 become believers? After three years with
Jesus, they were still a disappointment. Judas sold Jesus, Peter denied
Jesus three times, cut the ear of the servant. A few were jockeying up
for position in heaven and arguing about who is the greatest. . Others
were scattered and abandoned the King. Only the women stayed with Jesus!
Were they already believers at that time who surrendered their lives
100% to Jesus? What a picture of a disciple!
Truth is we are all fellow travelers...each with weaknesses that needs
to be surrendered to Jesus as we recognize them.....and that is the
process until we "graduate" to heaven...But we grow in that repenting
process only when we are involve with a gracious community that accepts
us unconditionally. We need to journey with one another especially in
our weakness.....
To be a disciple does not mean we will walk in obedience perfectly. We
are 100% forgiven and accepted unconditionally just because of
Jesus...absolutely nothing in us is acceptable to God apart from Jesus,
even our so called obedience and sacrifices.....that is our position
before God and it helps us be sober and humble before God and man.
We are saved by grace 100%, free for us but costly to Jesus. Even
maintaining our salvation is 100% by grace, not because of our obedience
are we accepted daily by God ....but only because of Jesus. If we deeply
appreciate the grace of salvation, we will be compelled to love and
obey Him in return as a sign of gratitude. Those believers who do not
seek to obey, do not yet experience and appreciate the depth of God's
love and grace. (Edd is right that we need to see our hopelessness first
before we can appreciate His grace. Problem is we see ourselves as good
and able people. We live independently from God--which is the worst form
of idolatry.)
We have to acknowledge Him as King of our lives, the one who owns us...
has the authority to manage and lead our lives...that implies that from
now on we will seek to obey Him with the help of the Holy Spirit out of
gratitude to His graciousness.
Wency
The Two Kings
Dear Jay and R.G.
I am really interested on this topic. Let's have it discussed by starting on the questions that I asked, specially on question number one. Another is, please explain what the paragraph below means, specially on: "The starting point of salvation is the acknowledgment of Lordship of Christ." Unless this is explained, others will understand and participate on this. I will give my fearless view after your explanation.Okay?
Dear Bobot,
Bot, akong gibutang diri ang imong sumapay sa Hisgot hisgot aron naa tay document of discussion aron anybody can read back what we have already discussed.
Don't be so hot, lets discuss this slowly kay during sa among BS sa una ni Juni-boy iya ra tong ginadali-dali kay clase naman hehehehehe.
Let me share another parable about the Kingdom. Jesus shared this in the height of his popularity that so many people were following Him. Jesus was quick in clarifying to them what it takes to really follow Him.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. Luk 14:33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.
He compared it with two kings one with great power and the other one with less power. Who are these two kings? Before I thought that this is Jesus and Satan respectively, but looking at the verse 33 and the previous verses it is obvious that He was talking about Himself and the people who wanted to follow Him. So its Jesus as King versus me another king. I look at my "kingship" ("queenship" sa mga girls hehehee), my "kingdom" those that I want to rule, wow!! there is a great freedom to live on my own and continue my ways... BUT when I met Jesus another King of great power, obviously my kingship and my kingdom has no much with His. Then I ask "WHAT SHALL I DO?" If I fight I know I will die, if I surrender I know I will live but it also means I will submit to Him and His condition is to forsake all. Now, His advice is for us to sitdown and compute. Is it worth the fight? or is it more worthy to raise up our white flag, and say LORD I surrender!!
The General Surrender of once life should be done and decided by every one who met Jesus. We will all struggle how to live a surrendered life but in every struggle we always reckon our lives with Jesus whom we accepted as our only Savior and have surrendered our lives and made Him LORD, KING of our lives.
BTW, Jesus use the word here "can not be my disciple" . Ang pangutana "Is being a Christian different from being a Disciple?"
Hala nagkadaghan na ang pangutana..... wala man gatubag sigi lang pasumbingay hehehehe.
RG.
I am really interested on this topic. Let's have it discussed by starting on the questions that I asked, specially on question number one. Another is, please explain what the paragraph below means, specially on: "The starting point of salvation is the acknowledgment of Lordship of Christ." Unless this is explained, others will understand and participate on this. I will give my fearless view after your explanation.Okay?
Dear Bobot,
Bot, akong gibutang diri ang imong sumapay sa Hisgot hisgot aron naa tay document of discussion aron anybody can read back what we have already discussed.
Don't be so hot, lets discuss this slowly kay during sa among BS sa una ni Juni-boy iya ra tong ginadali-dali kay clase naman hehehehehe.
Let me share another parable about the Kingdom. Jesus shared this in the height of his popularity that so many people were following Him. Jesus was quick in clarifying to them what it takes to really follow Him.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. Luk 14:33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.
He compared it with two kings one with great power and the other one with less power. Who are these two kings? Before I thought that this is Jesus and Satan respectively, but looking at the verse 33 and the previous verses it is obvious that He was talking about Himself and the people who wanted to follow Him. So its Jesus as King versus me another king. I look at my "kingship" ("queenship" sa mga girls hehehee), my "kingdom" those that I want to rule, wow!! there is a great freedom to live on my own and continue my ways... BUT when I met Jesus another King of great power, obviously my kingship and my kingdom has no much with His. Then I ask "WHAT SHALL I DO?" If I fight I know I will die, if I surrender I know I will live but it also means I will submit to Him and His condition is to forsake all. Now, His advice is for us to sitdown and compute. Is it worth the fight? or is it more worthy to raise up our white flag, and say LORD I surrender!!
The General Surrender of once life should be done and decided by every one who met Jesus. We will all struggle how to live a surrendered life but in every struggle we always reckon our lives with Jesus whom we accepted as our only Savior and have surrendered our lives and made Him LORD, KING of our lives.
BTW, Jesus use the word here "can not be my disciple" . Ang pangutana "Is being a Christian different from being a Disciple?"
Hala nagkadaghan na ang pangutana..... wala man gatubag sigi lang pasumbingay hehehehe.
RG.
A Decision of Trading All
Mga Igsoon,
Continue lang ko aning topic ha, bisan ug mura ug ako ra ang interasado ani. unsaon man ako may moderator, heheheheeh and you can always comment anytime you like. I just have the burden to talk about this very basic issue of what it means to have Jesus in our lives, the King of kings and the Lord of lords.
Jesus once told this parable about the Kingdom. A one verse parable. Mat 13:44 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and hid; and for joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.
This parable tells us a lot about a BIG decision that we should make when we met Jesus (the King of this Kingdom). Its a decision of trading all that we have for the Kingdom. this does not say about buying our salvation with all that we have becuase that is not consistent with what the Bible says, but it has something to do with giving up our reign, our rights ourselves to Jesus so that His Kingdom will reign in our hearts.
This man look at what he has, then look at the Jesus and his Kingdom. He weigh things out... and decided that its worth it all. This is a decision that I think each of us should make..
RG.
Continue lang ko aning topic ha, bisan ug mura ug ako ra ang interasado ani. unsaon man ako may moderator, heheheheeh and you can always comment anytime you like. I just have the burden to talk about this very basic issue of what it means to have Jesus in our lives, the King of kings and the Lord of lords.
Jesus once told this parable about the Kingdom. A one verse parable. Mat 13:44 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and hid; and for joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.
This parable tells us a lot about a BIG decision that we should make when we met Jesus (the King of this Kingdom). Its a decision of trading all that we have for the Kingdom. this does not say about buying our salvation with all that we have becuase that is not consistent with what the Bible says, but it has something to do with giving up our reign, our rights ourselves to Jesus so that His Kingdom will reign in our hearts.
This man look at what he has, then look at the Jesus and his Kingdom. He weigh things out... and decided that its worth it all. This is a decision that I think each of us should make..
RG.
The Parable of the Sower
Mga Igsoon ko,
Wala gyud kaayo ga pick-up aning topic but I know you are listening and waiting for more discussion. The questions of Bobot are tough questions that need to be addressed not only to us here in Cebu Navs but actually to other Nav Staff and constituents. This is important because this will affect the way we share Jesus (the good news, the gospel) to others, specially in the Philippine context. In the Phillipiines almost all people will never refuse Jesus as the Savior, but the integral part of who Jesus really is as LORD, are either misunderstood or taken for granted by many who accepted Him in their lives. It could be the reason why when certain issues in life come the Lordship of Jesus is being left-out, because Jesus has never been the LORD of their lives.
This is I think is the theme of the Parable of the sower that Jesus Himself explained. there were 3 people who accepted the word about the Kingdom, but only one of them produces fruits. the other two either misunderstood or have taken the Kingdom (and the KING) for granted.
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.
But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”( Mat 13:20-23)
You can add to Bobot's questions. We do not have to be in a hurry to get answers. Let it a continuing thoughts, until such time that God will capture our hearts and teach us of who He really is.
R.G.
Wala gyud kaayo ga pick-up aning topic but I know you are listening and waiting for more discussion. The questions of Bobot are tough questions that need to be addressed not only to us here in Cebu Navs but actually to other Nav Staff and constituents. This is important because this will affect the way we share Jesus (the good news, the gospel) to others, specially in the Philippine context. In the Phillipiines almost all people will never refuse Jesus as the Savior, but the integral part of who Jesus really is as LORD, are either misunderstood or taken for granted by many who accepted Him in their lives. It could be the reason why when certain issues in life come the Lordship of Jesus is being left-out, because Jesus has never been the LORD of their lives.
This is I think is the theme of the Parable of the sower that Jesus Himself explained. there were 3 people who accepted the word about the Kingdom, but only one of them produces fruits. the other two either misunderstood or have taken the Kingdom (and the KING) for granted.
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.
But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”( Mat 13:20-23)
You can add to Bobot's questions. We do not have to be in a hurry to get answers. Let it a continuing thoughts, until such time that God will capture our hearts and teach us of who He really is.
R.G.
Put Jesus in His proper place
Dear Jay and Bobot ug mga igsoon ko,
Salamat sa inyong tampo. Although, this is the most basic, and probably the first thing that we learn during our Bible Studies, on Lessons on the Way and Assurance of Salvation. But I am sure that not all of us are confident with what we believe about our Salvation and much more the way we knew Jesus. In our on-line YM BS with some of us here, one of the thing that we noticed; almost all the people that Jesus met have their own concept of what the "Messiah" should look like or should be doing. When Jesus refused to be what they picture Him to be, they left him, they denounced him and finally they crucified him. They don't want a Missiah who will not fit with what they like.
Now, this maybe obvious when we read the Gospel but during the time when we met Jesus, we may have the same concept of Jesus as they have. We have our ideas of success, and what is a happy life should be or how to make life works. So when we met Jesus, we "accepted Him" for at least two reasons, 1) the salvation He brings and 2) we are very excited because there is now Sombody who will help us to achieve our pre-defined successful and happy life. Well, If I may add, the third probably is, you like this funny navigators (hehehehe), you feel happy when you are with them so why not just conform and do what they do.
Soon, in real life situation (love life, choosing life time partner, career, work, money, and even a small decisions), you probably observed that Jesus that, He would like to redefine for us what success is and what life is, as a whole, and deliberately not support our idea of how life works. The person who did not accept Jesus as Lord, will slowly slip out of Jesus, first ignor Jesus, then leave and continue to do things his own way. he may not say a word but the "actions speak more than words". In some cases the leaving is not done by leaving the group where he met Jesus, he continue to hang around, because of frienships and other reasons. This person I should say is journeying on accepting Jesus as He is and His term. His continued studying of the word, the witness and example of those who truly accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior are important in his journey, much more the role of the Holy Spirit to finally open his eyes of who Jesus really is.
But the person who accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, he may or may not know the big picture yet but when the same life situation come, he may struggle, he may cry and beg, yet at the end, he surrenders, and say to Jesus "Jesus since you are the Lord, then not my will but let your will be done." Soon, you will see this pesrson realigning his decesions, his life to how Jesus defines them, and soon you will see him as friend of God, an ally of God, he has the heart and the vision of God for His Kingdom, he knows the role God gave him, and does it faithfully because He is consumed with the Glory of God. Please do not be misled by equating Lordship with being active in the minstry, because Lorship is still on the basis of "for WHATEVER you do, whether you eat or drink, do all for the GLORY of God."
Mga igsoon ko diri sa CebuNavs, the reason why I brought this up because our desire and my prayer is, all of us will put Jesus in His proper place. He is not just our only Savior, He is our LORD.
Hayyy, Naka hilak ko da sa pasulat nako ani...Now help me answer the questions of Bobot....
RG.
Salamat sa inyong tampo. Although, this is the most basic, and probably the first thing that we learn during our Bible Studies, on Lessons on the Way and Assurance of Salvation. But I am sure that not all of us are confident with what we believe about our Salvation and much more the way we knew Jesus. In our on-line YM BS with some of us here, one of the thing that we noticed; almost all the people that Jesus met have their own concept of what the "Messiah" should look like or should be doing. When Jesus refused to be what they picture Him to be, they left him, they denounced him and finally they crucified him. They don't want a Missiah who will not fit with what they like.
Now, this maybe obvious when we read the Gospel but during the time when we met Jesus, we may have the same concept of Jesus as they have. We have our ideas of success, and what is a happy life should be or how to make life works. So when we met Jesus, we "accepted Him" for at least two reasons, 1) the salvation He brings and 2) we are very excited because there is now Sombody who will help us to achieve our pre-defined successful and happy life. Well, If I may add, the third probably is, you like this funny navigators (hehehehe), you feel happy when you are with them so why not just conform and do what they do.
Soon, in real life situation (love life, choosing life time partner, career, work, money, and even a small decisions), you probably observed that Jesus that, He would like to redefine for us what success is and what life is, as a whole, and deliberately not support our idea of how life works. The person who did not accept Jesus as Lord, will slowly slip out of Jesus, first ignor Jesus, then leave and continue to do things his own way. he may not say a word but the "actions speak more than words". In some cases the leaving is not done by leaving the group where he met Jesus, he continue to hang around, because of frienships and other reasons. This person I should say is journeying on accepting Jesus as He is and His term. His continued studying of the word, the witness and example of those who truly accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior are important in his journey, much more the role of the Holy Spirit to finally open his eyes of who Jesus really is.
But the person who accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, he may or may not know the big picture yet but when the same life situation come, he may struggle, he may cry and beg, yet at the end, he surrenders, and say to Jesus "Jesus since you are the Lord, then not my will but let your will be done." Soon, you will see this pesrson realigning his decesions, his life to how Jesus defines them, and soon you will see him as friend of God, an ally of God, he has the heart and the vision of God for His Kingdom, he knows the role God gave him, and does it faithfully because He is consumed with the Glory of God. Please do not be misled by equating Lordship with being active in the minstry, because Lorship is still on the basis of "for WHATEVER you do, whether you eat or drink, do all for the GLORY of God."
Mga igsoon ko diri sa CebuNavs, the reason why I brought this up because our desire and my prayer is, all of us will put Jesus in His proper place. He is not just our only Savior, He is our LORD.
Hayyy, Naka hilak ko da sa pasulat nako ani...Now help me answer the questions of Bobot....
RG.
If one can not follow all the "terms" of Jesus, is he save?
Questions:
1. Is "making Jesus Lord" into one's life a requirement for
Salvation?
2. When we say Lordship, how do we view it in one's life? Perfect
at all? Semi perfect? faltering? Is there anyone whose
Lordship in Christ perfect in all the areas of his life?
Is Lordship an "All-or Nothing" issue? Does Jesus
requiring Lordship for everyone to be saved?
3. If one can not follow all the "terms" of Jesus, is he save?
4. How do we reconcile Romans 10:9, with Ephesians 2:8-9?
5. When one receives the Lord Jesus in his life, he is saved...but
understandably His Lordship in Jesus is not yet a perfect in
his life. He has a lot of things first to process yet in his
life. The next day after he received Jesus, he dies...Is
the person save?
6. What do we mean by Lordship as essential for Salvation?
Kuya Bobot
1. Is "making Jesus Lord" into one's life a requirement for
Salvation?
2. When we say Lordship, how do we view it in one's life? Perfect
at all? Semi perfect? faltering? Is there anyone whose
Lordship in Christ perfect in all the areas of his life?
Is Lordship an "All-or Nothing" issue? Does Jesus
requiring Lordship for everyone to be saved?
3. If one can not follow all the "terms" of Jesus, is he save?
4. How do we reconcile Romans 10:9, with Ephesians 2:8-9?
5. When one receives the Lord Jesus in his life, he is saved...but
understandably His Lordship in Jesus is not yet a perfect in
his life. He has a lot of things first to process yet in his
life. The next day after he received Jesus, he dies...Is
the person save?
6. What do we mean by Lordship as essential for Salvation?
Kuya Bobot
Lordship is Essential for Salvation?
Amir(as in American Iranian) hehehehe,
"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36
Ingon sad si Steve Murrel:
Lordship is one of the central messages of the Bible. Jesus is referred to as "Lord" ninety-two times in the book of Acts and 747 times in the whole New Testament, while being referred to as "Savior" only twice in Acts and twenty-four in the New Testament. The biblical emphasis is overwhelmingly on the concept of Lordship. Lord means master, the one who calls the shots, the one who makes the decisions.
Lordship is Essential for Salvation
The starting point of salvation is the acknowledgment of Lordship of Christ. Confessing Jesus is Lord implies a submission to his Lordship in every area of life. If Jesus is not Lord of all, he is not Lord at all. We do not have the option of receiving him as Savior and not as Lord. Salvation is an all-or-nothing proposal.
Jay
"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36
Ingon sad si Steve Murrel:
Lordship is one of the central messages of the Bible. Jesus is referred to as "Lord" ninety-two times in the book of Acts and 747 times in the whole New Testament, while being referred to as "Savior" only twice in Acts and twenty-four in the New Testament. The biblical emphasis is overwhelmingly on the concept of Lordship. Lord means master, the one who calls the shots, the one who makes the decisions.
Lordship is Essential for Salvation
The starting point of salvation is the acknowledgment of Lordship of Christ. Confessing Jesus is Lord implies a submission to his Lordship in every area of life. If Jesus is not Lord of all, he is not Lord at all. We do not have the option of receiving him as Savior and not as Lord. Salvation is an all-or-nothing proposal.
Jay
Who is Jesus when we accepted Him into our lives?
Dear Amir,
You better ask or formulate some questions from the article in order to drive a point and it is easy to answer.
Bobot
Thank you Bobot, Kini mga igsoon si Bay Bobot dili ni gikan sa Cebu, apan ato ning gi-adopt by affiliation (kay product man ni sa mga gikan sa Cebu nga gipadala sa Ginoo sa CDO, silang Edith, Ed tadulan,Roy requeroso, Elma, Jk-Jk ug uban pa, so siya linghod nga anak sa Cebu Navs, hehehehe. Ug ang kina bug-atan, isa siya sa National Leadership Team (NLT) karon sa PhilNavs. Ang mga wala nasayod, as of now the Philnavs is lead by a team. K.Eseng based in Davao, Danny Narciso based in Iloilo, Bobot Migraso and Soc Arzadon based in Manila. Soc is working in a corporate world, so we can say that we have a team of leaders who understand every aspect of life. This team is composed of a more veteran(K.Eseng) and the young blood like Danny and Soc. Si Bay Bobot naa ni sa tunga-tunga. All of them are also connected here in Cebu Navs, and i think they are entertained, sometimes tensed and infuriorated (sakto ba ni akong ininglis?), but I think they are also blessed. Including our former ND Kuya Wency is here.
Ok balik ta didto sa atong hisgot hisgot. Nangayo ug question si bay Bobot sa atong article. Mao ni ang akong question? Kinsa man gyud kinaguapuhan sa Cebu Navs karon? hehehehehe kasab-an tang Bobot ani. sigi lang puede man nako i delete iyang ngalan diri hehehehe. (BTW, sigi lang mo sa inyon kinumustahay ha? aron saba gihapon ta, kay sauna ra ba, b4 sa BS saba kaayo, tanan pirmi naa dala ug jokes, pero pag magutana na ang BS leader, kinsa maka quote sa A1!!!! duha na lang ang gasaba, katong naka memorize, Kinsa man anf naka quote sa B12, ah isa nalang si Roy Versoza na lang (ambot sa USC kung kinsa) , ang E2, wa na hilom na tanan. heheheheeh, ingon pod ang BS leader (Si Raul, sa USC ambot kinsa) bi share kuno bi sa imong quiet time!!! tanan nagashare sa ilang quiet moments. Hilom man kaayo hehehehehe)
Ah! serious na ni.
1. From this statement in the article "I've taken Him as Savior, and later on I'll make Him Lord." Is this possible?
2. Again part of the article says " I didn't know any other way to accept Christ. He is Lord; and I accept Him on His terms, not mine. I don't redefine Jesus as something less than He is, and then accept Him that way." -What would be the implications of this statement to a person who accepted Jesus as Lord?
Bunos question ni. Puede di na ninyo tubagon ang duha ka pangutana kini na lang mas sayon siguro ni.
WHO IS JESUS when I accepted him into my life? Puede mo mangutana kang Jesus for the answer.
R.G. Amir
You better ask or formulate some questions from the article in order to drive a point and it is easy to answer.
Bobot
Thank you Bobot, Kini mga igsoon si Bay Bobot dili ni gikan sa Cebu, apan ato ning gi-adopt by affiliation (kay product man ni sa mga gikan sa Cebu nga gipadala sa Ginoo sa CDO, silang Edith, Ed tadulan,Roy requeroso, Elma, Jk-Jk ug uban pa, so siya linghod nga anak sa Cebu Navs, hehehehe. Ug ang kina bug-atan, isa siya sa National Leadership Team (NLT) karon sa PhilNavs. Ang mga wala nasayod, as of now the Philnavs is lead by a team. K.Eseng based in Davao, Danny Narciso based in Iloilo, Bobot Migraso and Soc Arzadon based in Manila. Soc is working in a corporate world, so we can say that we have a team of leaders who understand every aspect of life. This team is composed of a more veteran(K.Eseng) and the young blood like Danny and Soc. Si Bay Bobot naa ni sa tunga-tunga. All of them are also connected here in Cebu Navs, and i think they are entertained, sometimes tensed and infuriorated (sakto ba ni akong ininglis?), but I think they are also blessed. Including our former ND Kuya Wency is here.
Ok balik ta didto sa atong hisgot hisgot. Nangayo ug question si bay Bobot sa atong article. Mao ni ang akong question? Kinsa man gyud kinaguapuhan sa Cebu Navs karon? hehehehehe kasab-an tang Bobot ani. sigi lang puede man nako i delete iyang ngalan diri hehehehe. (BTW, sigi lang mo sa inyon kinumustahay ha? aron saba gihapon ta, kay sauna ra ba, b4 sa BS saba kaayo, tanan pirmi naa dala ug jokes, pero pag magutana na ang BS leader, kinsa maka quote sa A1!!!! duha na lang ang gasaba, katong naka memorize, Kinsa man anf naka quote sa B12, ah isa nalang si Roy Versoza na lang (ambot sa USC kung kinsa) , ang E2, wa na hilom na tanan. heheheheeh, ingon pod ang BS leader (Si Raul, sa USC ambot kinsa) bi share kuno bi sa imong quiet time!!! tanan nagashare sa ilang quiet moments. Hilom man kaayo hehehehehe)
Ah! serious na ni.
1. From this statement in the article "I've taken Him as Savior, and later on I'll make Him Lord." Is this possible?
2. Again part of the article says " I didn't know any other way to accept Christ. He is Lord; and I accept Him on His terms, not mine. I don't redefine Jesus as something less than He is, and then accept Him that way." -What would be the implications of this statement to a person who accepted Jesus as Lord?
Bunos question ni. Puede di na ninyo tubagon ang duha ka pangutana kini na lang mas sayon siguro ni.
WHO IS JESUS when I accepted him into my life? Puede mo mangutana kang Jesus for the answer.
R.G. Amir
Are you a Lordship Savationist?
Mga Igsoon,
Dili matugkad ang akong kalipay karon na nagtigum-tigum aning egroup. We are about 5 to 6 generations of Cabu Navs in this egroup. As a moderator ganahan kong mag hisgot hisgot sa mga butang nga atong pirmi gihisgotan sa atong Bible studies nga mag likay likay si Jun Palad pag naa na si Raul hehehe. Karon nga naa na tay Madre, full time workers, pastors, missionaries, layminister, elders, managers, engineers, doctor, abogado, mga mama, papa, lolo lola mga apo, estudeyante negosyante ug uban pa, unya spread out through-out the world. Lets look at those basic things that we used to talk, argued and wondered.
I would like us to comment on the this article of John Mc Arthur: (Dili apo ni Douglas ha?)
CONFESSION OF CHRIST'S LORDSHIP
In order to give glory to Christ, we must confess Christ as Lord. That brings about salvation. That is not a second act. You don't say, "I've taken Him as Savior, and later on I'll make Him Lord." Those aren't two distinct things. When you are saved, you confess Christ as Lord. Romans 10:9 says, "...if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." In other words, salvation is a matter of confessing the lordship of Christ--confessing that He is God and that He is sovereign.
Are You a Lordship Salvationist? Somebody asked me if I was a "lordship salvationist." According to that individual, a lordship salvationist is someone who believes that you must believe that Jesus is Lord in order to be saved. I said that I didn't know any other way to accept Christ. He is Lord; and I accept Him on His terms, not mine. I don't redefine Jesus as something less than He is, and then accept Him that way. I asked him if Jesus is Lord and he said, "Yes." I said, "Then how do you take Him?" And he said, "You must take Him as He is." When you confess Jesus as Lord, you bring glory to God. But no one can glorify God until they confess Jesus as Lord.
R.G. Amir
Dili matugkad ang akong kalipay karon na nagtigum-tigum aning egroup. We are about 5 to 6 generations of Cabu Navs in this egroup. As a moderator ganahan kong mag hisgot hisgot sa mga butang nga atong pirmi gihisgotan sa atong Bible studies nga mag likay likay si Jun Palad pag naa na si Raul hehehe. Karon nga naa na tay Madre, full time workers, pastors, missionaries, layminister, elders, managers, engineers, doctor, abogado, mga mama, papa, lolo lola mga apo, estudeyante negosyante ug uban pa, unya spread out through-out the world. Lets look at those basic things that we used to talk, argued and wondered.
I would like us to comment on the this article of John Mc Arthur: (Dili apo ni Douglas ha?)
CONFESSION OF CHRIST'S LORDSHIP
In order to give glory to Christ, we must confess Christ as Lord. That brings about salvation. That is not a second act. You don't say, "I've taken Him as Savior, and later on I'll make Him Lord." Those aren't two distinct things. When you are saved, you confess Christ as Lord. Romans 10:9 says, "...if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." In other words, salvation is a matter of confessing the lordship of Christ--confessing that He is God and that He is sovereign.
Are You a Lordship Salvationist? Somebody asked me if I was a "lordship salvationist." According to that individual, a lordship salvationist is someone who believes that you must believe that Jesus is Lord in order to be saved. I said that I didn't know any other way to accept Christ. He is Lord; and I accept Him on His terms, not mine. I don't redefine Jesus as something less than He is, and then accept Him that way. I asked him if Jesus is Lord and he said, "Yes." I said, "Then how do you take Him?" And he said, "You must take Him as He is." When you confess Jesus as Lord, you bring glory to God. But no one can glorify God until they confess Jesus as Lord.
R.G. Amir
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